Thor: Ragnarok was so good, guys!
We spoil the hell out of it in this episode, so be warned.
I don't think there's anything I need to link to here, to be honest. Not many visual references in this episode.
Oh! Except here's a link to The Case of the Missing Men, published by Nova Scotia's own Conundrum Press. Dave really liked it!
Talk to you in two weeks, because Dave is in Toronto next week (The Chilly Apple).
Holy smokes. We are in the home stretch here, and we have some great ones coming up. As it is written in Asgard, however, They who wish to watch Captain America: The Winter Soldier, if they be completists, must first endure Thor: The Dark World.
Cooler than you.
RG: I only saw this movie once and it was well after it had been released on Blu Ray. Thor: The Dark World is the only one of these Marvel movies that I didn't see in theatres. Why? I have no idea. Regrets? Not really.
DH: I loved it in the theatre, but it really loses something watching it in your living room. The second half picks up with the humour, but the first half is mostly pretty dull. I do like how much it’s basically a Masters Of The Universe movie though, with its crazy mix of science fiction and fantasy! Not to mention its himbo hero, of course.
"S'up?"
RG: Right off the bat, totally forgot that Malekith was in this movie, so already I am reminded how unmemorable this movie is. I think I basically only remember the Loki parts.
DH: Marvel gets a lot of flack for having underdeveloped villains in these movies (other than Loki), and Christopher Eccleston as Malekith doesn’t do a lot to reverse that trend. He doesn’t leave too much of an impression.
This could be literally anyone.
DH: That big stone warrior that Thor takes out in Vanaheim at the beginning: is he supposed to be one of the aliens that Donald Blake runs into in Thor’s origin story? Because he sure looks like it.
Nice detective work, Dave!
DH: There seems to be more of an effort here to make Asgard seem like a populated place. I got more a sense of there being a lot of people there, just living their weird space-god lives, as opposed to the first movie, where it just seemed like a few sets with the principal players hanging out on them.
RG: I'm really into the arc of this series of movies. I love the solo movies that led to the team-up adventure of The Avengers, and now we see the very distinct aftermath movies for each of the big three characters. We saw Tony Stark struggling with PTSD and with his new role as superhero, and now we see Thor and family dealing with Loki. Thor is also dealing with some out of control hair in this movie. He has adopted an undergrad Dave Matthews-fan hackey sack look that I do not approve of.
"Son, are you doing marijuana? You can tell me."
I do not disagree with Odin's suggestion that Thor might be better off with Sif. I mean, we all would.
"I know I've known you my whole life and fought at your side, Sif, but Jane gave me a ride in her van once and she's a scientist or something. You understand."
DH: Do you get the sense that there was supposed to be more Sif in this movie? LIke a Sif/Jane/Thor love triangle? They sort of hint at it, but it goes nowhere.
RG: Yeah, well that seems to be all Sif does in this movie: pine for Thor.
Hey, Dave was right! Gratuitous shirtless scene! Extremely gratuitous, really. Very Fabio.
If Fabio didn't wash his hair.
RG: And, look, it’s Chris O'Dowd! The one guy who could possibly charm Jane away from Thor!
I love her.
RG: I like that Darcy has a bigger role in this movie than she did in the first one. She's very funny. Unnecessary, but funny.
Is maybe the problem with the Thor movies the science mumbo jumbo? It's all very boring and meaningless. There is no science to Thor. We don't need an astrophysicist trying to figure out his deal. He arrives magically via rainbow bridge. What do you want?
DH: I’m no scientist, but I’m pretty sure the “science” in this movie is utter gibberish. “If we turn this dial, it’ll warp space right where those bad guys happen to be and they’ll disappear!” It’s kind of like the science in Interstellar in that respect, only that movie is super-serious and this one basically turns into a comedy by the end.
RG: It's pretty romantic when Thor returns to Jane, all standing in the rain. It is not cool how Jane immediately starts whining at him, as if he's not the God of Thunder/an Avenger/an alien/the future king of Asgard/the Sexiest Man Alive/out of her league.
Wet, Hot, Asgardian Thor.
RG: I do love when Darcy asks him "How's space?" I do not like that Thor leaves her behind when he takes Jane to Asgard.
DH: What’s his response? “Space is fine”? Pretty funny. I like how laid back Thor is.
RG: I do too. It’s my favourite thing about this movie version of the character. He’s just up for whatever.
“I couldn’t imagine a worse scenario than not enjoying this character, because it’s gonna consume a good 10 years of my life.”
RG: Jane Foster is very cute when she's in Asgard. I like when she says "You told your dad about me?" when Odin is all "I know very well who you are, Jane Foster" like she's dirt.
Get in that sandwich, Jane!
DH: Odin really is a dick. By the way, is Captain America the only superhero ever made who doesn’t have daddy issues of any kind? It seems that way.
RG: Only because he didn’t have a dad? At least that’s the impression I get. He has best friend issues.
I zone out completely during all the dark elf scenes. No wonder I don't remember Malekith. I would have been fine with those elves just speaking English. Don't need the made-up Elf gobbledegook. It's also kinda racist when everyone speaks English except the bad guys, no matter where they are from.
DH: The Dark Elves with the weird white kabuki masks do look cool, though. And I like their little black hole grenades, and their crazy spaceships. I’m also a big fan of how Algrim/Kurse is a guy in a suit, when he could have just as easily been a CGI effect. I’m always gonna root for the practical effects when we see them.
This movie was originally supposed to be directed by Patty Jenkins (who just last week replaced Michelle McLaren on the in-development Wonder Woman movie!), who dropped out due to creative differences and was replaced by Alan Taylor, a veteran of TV shows like The Sopranos and Game Of Thrones. It doesn’t feel as cinematic as it should, somehow--it looks more like a slightly larger scale episode of the kind of prestige TV show Taylor is known for. I don’t think he had a very happy experience on this movie, so accordingly, I don’t think he brought a lot of energy to the table.
RG: Yeah, Taylor seems kind of unenthusiastic when he talks about this movie.
I also zone out during all the Odin history lessons. And basically anytime Loki isn’t on screen. And I’m not even a Loki fangirl.
“It’s interesting that I’ve had that wide impact in a role that is so unlike me.”
RG: There is way too long a stretch in the first half of this movie without Loki. When we see him in the prison cell the movie really picks up.
Checking out some Loki/Thor fanfic.
DH: I remember hearing that they shot additional scenes with Loki late in the production because of Tom Hiddleston’s popularity, which must mean there really wasn’t a lot of Loki in the original version. Probably a good move to reshoot.
RG: There really just isn't a lot of chemistry between Jane and Thor. I wish there were. When you look at the other romantic pairings in these movies: Tony and Pepper, Steve and Peggy, Bruce and Betty, Steve and Bucky, Steve and me...there's just no comparison. And since Natalie Portman makes herself scarce between Thor films in this Marvel Cinematic Universe, there's just no reason to care about these two. Honestly, I would prefer a swinging bachelor Thor.
I don't really like Sif's jealousy of Jane, either. I mean, I get it, I just don't like it.
DH: Definitely not a movie that’s passing the Bechdel test anytime soon.
RG: I do like Heimdall joining the fight. It's nice to see him in some action scenes.
DH: Why is Balder the Brave not in these movies? I haven’t really read a ton of Thor comics, but isn’t he kind of a big deal in them?
RG: Gotta save something for Thor 3.
There's a lot of cool looking stuff that happens during the battles. Some very Star Warsy stuff. I do like how these Thor movies serve as a bridge between the terrestrial and cosmic Marvel universes. It's a confusing bridge, but a bridge nonetheless.
I loved seeing Frigga kicking ass in this movie, but I did NOT love her getting killed right after. I mean, come on. The funeral scene is very pretty. Sif seems the most broken up about her death.
Total MILF (Mom I'd Like to Fight)
DH: I like the relationship between Frigga and Loki that this movie touches on. Thor was Odin’s favourite, while Loki was more of a mama’s boy. Are we to infer that she taught him how to cast those illusions? I forgot about that.
RG: Thor does tell Loki that Loki has their mother’s tricks or whatever. So, yes? I guess Thor didn’t want to learn magic.
Thor seriously looks filthy in this movie. He probably smells terrible, with his unwashed hair and gross poncho. It's like any second now he's going to whip out a guitar and treat us to some "No Woman, No Cry."
"I'm done with this fascist dictatorship, Dad! My buddy Blaze needs help with his juice stand."
RG: Hey! Heimdall takes off his helmet in this movie! Thumbs up!
Heimdall can get it.
RG: I adore the scene where Thor visits Loki in prison, especially when Loki drops the illusion. Great reveal. This scene is the turning point in the movie, in that it is where the movie is finally interesting. It occurs at just past the one hour mark.
I love Thor and Loki together. And I really love when Loki turns into snarky Captain America. Another thing I forgot about! Delightful!
If you watch the deleted scenes you can see Tom Hiddleston in a Captain America costume doing this scene before they swapped Evans in.
Captain America cameos in every movie, please!
“I did an impression of Loki in the Captain America costume. I did the whole performance and then they showed Chris my performance on tape. It’s him doing an impression of me doing an impression of him. And it’s brilliant.”
RG: Thor and Loki are pure magic in scenes together. When Thor is trying to get that spaceship to work their bickering is so funny.
Fanfic fodder.
RG: I'm glad Thor switches to his sleeveless costume half way through the movie. Hemsworth's arms are ridiculous in this one. Even with the awful hair he is still so attractive I can barely look at him. I can't believe he is the same species as me. It must be how a right whale feels when they see, like, an orca.
“I was at the airport a few weeks ago, and this kid with a little cape on and a hammer was running around smashing into things and his parents looked over at me and said to him, ‘Look, look, it’s Thor!’ And the kid looked up and said: ‘No it’s not.’ And just ran off and continued to be Thor around the airport. And I realised, I ain’t Thor without the costume and the hammer.”
RG: Man, Jane has nothing to do in this movie. She's reduced to an object. It sucks.
I love the reveal in the battle when Loki appears to have betrayed Thor but actually they were working together on a secret brother plan. Do not love whatever nonsense is going on with red dust and elves and black holes and whatnot.
DH: They showed that scene where Loki appears to cut Thor’s hand off at Comicon in Hall H the year before this movie came out, so right away I knew it wasn't what it seemed. No way would they reveal a scene like that so early if it was legit. Something similar happened with Winter Soldier, where they really leaned on Fury’s death in the advertising--so much so that I knew he couldn't possibly be dead.
RG: I DO love Loki holding his own against a bunch of bad guys with only a small dagger. Action!Loki!
Loki's "death" is truly heartbreaking. Both actors really give it. And Jane is just there, wondering why she had to visit her new boyfriend the same week that his whole family gets killed. Awkward!
"Avenge...me...Because you're...an Avenger..."
RG: When Jane's phone starts ringing on that elf planet and Thor says "it isn't me" that is really funny.
So, Dr Selvig is batshit crazy now and blames it on Loki being in his head during The Avengers movie. So can we expect a similar situation for Hawkeye? I just want a heads up if I have to see Renner dancing around naked in Age of Ultron.
I am only mentioning Selvig because I feel that I should, but really I think that character should have been axed from this movie. He really didn't need to be in this one, and it just ate up time that could probably be better spent.
I love seeing Thor on Earth, but other than that this London shit is BORING. And the science is STUPID.
Boring!
So boring!
RG: This movie suffers from the same problem as the first Thor movie: too many action scenes in settings that are so dark you can barely see anything.
Exciting action!
DH: The biggest problem facing this movie is that it doesn’t have much consequence for Thor in the long run. Iron Man 3 has big personal consequences for Tony Stark, and Winter Soldier has big consequences for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This movie is just another Thor adventure. I mean, I guess his mother dies, but we didn’t really get to know her all that well. And his relationship with Jane is more solidified, but it doesn’t look like she shows up in Age Of Ultron or anything. Thor: The Dark World is not a King-Sized Annual or 350th Anniversary Special, it’s just another cranked-out monthly issue, so to speak.
RG: That is an excellent way of putting it.
“The idea, in my mind, is that Thor is a character who continues to grow and he’s not just a static superhero and, in the first film, he went from being an impetuous prince to being somebody who is more responsible. And, in our film, he continued to grow up and went through the darker phase of growing up where you start to realize the world is more complicated than you thought and what you wanted might not be what you really want. In my mind, when we started calling it ‘The Dark World,’ it wasn’t just elves — it was adulthood [that] is the Dark World. And that’s what he’s growing into and part of that was losing people he loved.”
RG: Thor on the subway is funny, but that lady was lying when she says he can take that train three stops to Greenwich. He would have to switch to the Dockland Light Rail at some point. I know. I stayed in a hostel in Greenwich once. The commute into town was bullshit.
Just think, subway lady, if you had hit Thor with your car YOU'D be the love of his life right now!
DH: This movie is so unrealistic, with its Dark Elves and Infinity Stones and imaginary transit routes!
RG: Oh, I just checked. There’s an underground station in Greenwich now. Carry on, movie.
It's fun seeing a little bit of the celebrity status the Avengers now have since the New York attack. Everyone knows Thor now!
And, as usual, it's funny seeing Thor on Earth looking like Thor doing normal human things.
Would that not just make the whole coat rack fall right off the wall?
“I haven’t seen the movie and I’ve forgotten it. It’s hard to follow the story in the script. This is not really my world.”
“I knew Ken [Branagh] and he said ‘Would you like to play Odin?’ I said, ‘Yeah, okay.’ At my age if they offer me the phone book to read, I’ll read it, as long as they pay me.”
“I think before, my own fear of both success and failure would have stopped me...But I knew Ken [Branagh] knew what I could do, and I remember thinking: ‘I am never going to get closer. I might as well go for it.’ I put on 25 percent more muscle, got down to 7 percent body fat, knew my lines inside out. I was a man possessed.”
Just make him an Avenger.
RG: The surprise ending is very confusing. Is Odin dead then? Did Loki kill him? Are we going to need to see Anthony Hopkins sleepwalking his way through pretending to be Loki pretending to be Odin in Thor 3?
DH: I would wager that the filmmakers have no idea what happened there either. The real Odin was probably just in the bathroom that whole time or something.
RG: Yeah, maybe. This is how the movie should have gone: Frigga does not get killed and Loki takes her form instead. Wouldn't you love to see Renne Russo as Tom Hiddleston in the next movie? Also, layers and layers of creepy mama’s boy Psycho shit. The best!
The end of credits scene is weeeeeak. Not buying that romance. Jane should just date Chris O’Dowd. Thor can be her semi-annual piece on the side.
I love that they brought in Hemsworth's wife for this kiss. Because kissing Natalie Portman would have been a real chore.
And thus ends the Thor portion of these recaps. Up next we have the one that Dave and I agree is the very best Marvel movie so far, Captain America: The Winter Soldier. I am super excited to watch it again and write and write and write about it and look at screen caps for days afterward.
Hey, put down that Daredevil, it's Avengers time!
Dave and I assembled at his house to watch The Avengers for what was probably the trillionth time for each of us. There are still things I notice for the first time, though, because this movie is GREAT.
Going back to 2012, the excitement for this movie was obviously high. I would say it had reached a fever pitch after the perfection of Captain America: The First Avenger. I remember sitting in the theatre and each time one of the heroes was introduced I would think "oh yeah, he's in this too!!!"
This movie was a real gift to super hero fans. Here's what we have to say about it three years later.
I hope you like way too many screen caps of Chris Evans!
All the guys!
DH: I’m always still a little baffled that this movie exists. Avengers comics were some of the first comic books I ever owned, and I read them until they fell apart. I don’t think I ever really thought much about the possibility of a movie, because the only way for it to work would be a bunch of solo movies that led to a team movie. And that really did not seem like a realistic prospect, even ten years ago. Yet here we are. And the fact that it’s really, really good isn’t bad either. I sometimes wish these movies had come out when I was much younger, but if they had, I don’t know that I would have appreciated them the way I do now.
RG: It’s surreal. Everything is surreal. I still can’t believe there is a Winter Soldier movie, or that there is a Daredevil series on Netflix. This Avengers movie is now three years old and I still get giddy whenever Iron Man and Captain America are on screen together.
First thoughts: Loki looks horrible in this movie.
Heartthrob.
DH: A lot of people look very gross in this movie. Loki is super sweaty and greasy-looking when he first arrives on Earth, and when he mind-controls Hawkeye and Dr. Selvig, they get progressively more disgusting. They get bags under their eyes, they stop shaving, and we can only assume they stop showering and brushing their teeth. I bet they smell terrible.
Worse than usual.
RG: Oh my God. Hawkeye and Selvig look SO TERRIBLE. It makes me laugh every time. Like, what special effects person did they piss off?
I should note that I think Loki is fantastic in this movie, he just looks rough. It’s some pretty terrible hair.
But there are plenty of people in this movie who look anything but terrible. Pour example:
I swear I will post some pics that aren't of Chris Evans.
DH: I was pretty psyched to see “Project Pegasus” name-checked on the outside of the S.H.I.E.L.D. facility. That run of Marvel Two-In-One is an old favourite of mine.
RG: I love Agent Hill. I was really excited to see her included in these movies. Looking forward to more of her in Age of Ultron.
DH: It’s nice that they included at least one more prominent female character. More still would be nice.
RG: Yes, always. Black Widow's first scene is the best. Very Buffy.
I will never be even 1% as cool as this character.
DH: Like I was saying about Iron Man 2, ScarJo really sells it. I mean, she beats up three dudes while tied to a chair! In a cocktail dress! She really needs her own movie.
RG: There are two Black Widow-centric movies I would love to see: A Black Widow & Hawkeye backstory movie (he was sent to kill her and instead saved her?! I want to see THAT!), and I would love a Winter Soldier sequel where she goes looking for Bucky. I am VERY concerned that this upcoming Civil War movie isn’t going to devote enough time to that story. Also, I love Black Widow and Bucky as a couple.
I love how they establish Black Widow as being tough as shit, but then completely terrified of The Hulk.
Resisting a Jeremy Renner joke.
DH: Ruffalo makes the Banner role his own very quickly, which couldn’t have been easy after the musical chairs of casting that preceded him. I like how easygoing he is, but how he’s always kind of fidgeting with his hands. Did you know Joaquin Phoenix almost got this part? I can’t imagine that at all.
RG: Weird. Wasn’t he also rumoured to be Dr. Strange? Maybe he’ll be Spider-Man.
Banner took some time between The Incredible Hulk and this movie to improve his mind, body, face and personality.
“I basically based my character entirely on my 10-year-old boy, who has all of the force of nature screaming out of his body while at the same time having everyone around him telling him to fucking control himself.”
“I have a question: How come it’s only Harry Dean Stanton that got to see Mark Ruffalo naked? ”
RG: Mark Ruffalo is everything I want in a Bruce Banner. And in a life partner. Oddly, he is the only hero we get to see shirtless in this movie. OH my GOD. Something just occurred to me: we haven’t seen Captain America or Thor shirtless in any movies after their first ones, have we? That is just a travesty. I don’t expect you to weigh in on this, Dave, so I’ll move on.
DH: I feel like there was a very gratuitous shirtless Thor in The Dark World, but I’ll guess we’ll know when we revisit that.
RG: Ooo! There's something to look forward to!
I was actually kind of over Iron Man at this point and wasn't looking forward to him in this movie, but he completely won me back. So great in this. When he shows up in Germany, blasting “Shoot to Thrill”, to help Cap stop Loki, I was like “Alright. I love this guy.” And when Iron Man and Captain America are standing next to each other at the end of that scene...so great!
"Thanks for saving my life, Mr Stark. You are human garbage and I hate you."
DH: It’s one of the things Joss Whedon does very well here--introducing all the characters in scenes that feel like their own individual movies, then bringing them together and it starts to feel like its own thing. The Tony and Pepper scene is very banter-heavy, with kind of a His Girl Friday back-and-forth, the Banner scene has him on the run playing good samaritan in an exotic locale like it’s an episode of the old TV show, Thor and Loki have super Shakespeare-by-way-of-Lee-and-Kirby conversation when they’re on screen together...balancing all of these conflicting tones was the key.
RG: Yes, totally. It was really smart the way they gave us a little bit of each of their solo films before mixing things up. I am really looking forward to more character interactions in Age of Ultron. And, again, it wouldn’t have been nearly as satisfying to see these characters brought together if they weren’t so well established already. There is so much love and respect for these characters in these movies. So much attention to detail. For example, I love Steve Rogers' old man with a cool jacket wardrobe in this movie.
Dad's going to Red Lobster for his birthday!
DH: And the fact that he calls Black Widow “ma’am”!
RG: I just love him so much. When he’s like “There’s only one God, ma’am.” Yup, that’s Captain America.
Just want to say real quick: the gym scene with Steve Rogers and Nick Fury at the beginning is one of my favourites. And not just because of the gratuitous Chris Evans ass shots. I mean, Steve’s situation in this movie is extremely messed up, and I like that the movie took as much time as it could afford with that. And we also see a quick shot of Cap being defrosted that really makes me sad.
Sob!
Speaking of Chris Evans ass shots, Captain America is almost exclusively shot from behind for this entire movie. Thumbs up, movie!
Doesn't this break, like, the first rule of acting?
Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh, right. Characterization. The glaring exception to the perfect characterization is Hawkeye. Hawkeye should be a lot more fun than this character. Also, Renner looks so gross when Loki is controlling him. Like, worse than usual.
DH: I really hope Joss Whedon can make you like him in Age Of Ultron! Because, man, you really have it in for him.
RG: I will never agree with that casting choice, but I love Hawkeye as a character in the comics so I will try hard to see past it.
Get in that sandwich, Widow!
DH: For whatever reason, the first time I saw this, the scene on the Helicarrier where Black Widow introduces Steve Rogers to Bruce Banner was when it finally sunk in that this movie was happening. All I could think of was those old Hostess Fruit Pie ads with the Marvel heroes, and that those guys were all in a movie together now. It was a weird thing to be thinking about, but I guess my brain was just trying to process that through-line of these characters I had been reading about my whole life all colliding in one awesome movie.
RG: They should have had a scene where they ate fruit pies. It should have been one of the snacks Tony is offering around.
I love everything about that first Helicarrier scene. Bruce being all fidgety and Cap extending a hand to him in a completely non-judgemental and fearless way. And then Cap being all impressed by the fancy tech inside the ship.
Adorable!
DH: We got together to watch this the other night, and you kept remarking that Cap is a real dick to Tony in this movie. I was trying to defend Cap, but not doing a very good job at the time. Now I’ve had a chance to think on it for a bit, and my takeaway is that, for Cap, World War II was probably only like, what, a month ago from his perspective? He comes from a time when he had no reason not to trust his army and his government, so the fact that Tony is instantly mistrustful of them and starts hacking their computers is just unthinkable to him. We know from his first scene that he’s aware that the country has sort of lost its way, but they don’t really go into it. But Tony plants that seed of doubt, and it makes him crazy--especially when he does some digging and sees that Tony was right. In a sense, this movie is kind of about Captain America’s loss of innocence (although maybe not in the way that you were hoping for, Rachelle).
Cap has such a visible wig line in this movie. It's super distracting.
RG: Ha. Yeah, I agree with all of that. It was also pointed out to me that Loki’s sceptre is in the room for most of the arguments, and it seems to have the power to make people angry and paranoid, so that explains some of Cap’s dickishness.
I do think Cap shoots first in this ongoing fight with Iron Man. All Tony did was show up in Germany, save Cap’s ass, and then show everyone that he has a lot of interest and knowledge about what’s going on with the Tesseract. In response Cap is basically just like “You’re a punk who is nothing without your fancy suit.” Fancy suit that he BUILT, Steve. And, again, just saved your ass with. I’m just saying Steve should have done a bit of research into Tony Stark before being such an asshole to him.
Get in that sandwich, Banner!
DH: Cap vs. Tony is just one of the great hero vs. hero scenes in this movie, even if it’s the only one that doesn’t turn physical (sorry, Rachelle).
RG: That’s ok. I’m more of a Cap/Bucky shipper.
“You don’t get these people together and then have a little duke-‘em-out. You get these people together and then you put them through hell.”
DH: A classic trope of superhero team-ups in comics is that they fight first, through some wacky misunderstanding or other. And everybody gets to fight everyone else before they team up! Thor vs. Iron Man, Thor vs. Hulk, Black Widow vs. (well, gets chased by) Hulk, Black Widow vs. Hawkeye...and all for good reason, none of the usual “I just wanted to make sure you are who you claim to be” stuff that was often the reason in the comics.
RG: I could watch ScarJo smash Renner’s face in all day.
The fight between Thor, Iron Man and Captain America is one of the greatest things I have ever seen on film. It’s just, so, so exciting to see those characters together on screen. And they all are very much themselves in that fight. I live for that moment at when Cap shows up standing on that tree after hitting both Thor and Iron Man with his shield to stop them from fighting.
I'm Canadian and even I get a little patriotic looking at this.
“There was a script. There just wasn’t a script I was going to film a word of.”
“What impressed me the most about Joss initially was the incredible screenplay we had to work with on Marvel’s The Avengers . Directing this film was a feat in itself, but his screenplay was phenomenal. I’m sure none of us really knew what to expect, but I take my hat off to Joss for that.”
“The biggest thing I worried about was making shitty fucking movies. I don’t want to make shitty movies and be contractually obligated to make garbage.”
DH: Whedon’s script is so tight, He has such a good handle on the characters. I once read a review of an early episode of Community that praised the character writing, and said that you could read any isolated line of dialogue without it being attributed to any one character, and even by that early point in the series, you would know instantly who was speaking. The characters were so clearly defined already that you would never mistake any one character’s dialogue for another. And I feel like that holds true for this movie as well. Whedon is known for quippy dialogue, and this could have easily turned into a bunch of characters cracking the same kinds of jokes for the whole movie, and it would have been excruciating. But they’re all very different, so it makes sense that it takes a while for them to start pulling together. And it’s that much more satisfying when they do.
You know who else is probably sweating like crazy throughout this movie? Samuel L Jackson.
RG: I would love to read the original Zak Penn script for this movie. I'll bet it was just awful. Fun fact: Penn is buddies with Jeremy Renner and is the reason he was cast as Hawkeye! Thanks, Zak!
The most satisfying thing about this movie (and pretty much all of the movies in the series, really) is how much respect the scripts have for the characters. Each character individually is perfectly realized (except Hawkeye) and the way they interact with each other in this movie is perfect. I love skittish, schlubby Bruce Banner. I love cocky, quippy, but good-hearted Tony Stark. I love ice cold, but fiercely protective Black Widow. I love Thor, who is clearly devastated about his brother, but is still remarkably fun and friendly. I love Captain America effortlessly taking on the leadership role, despite trying not to have a complete break-down over the fact that he just woke up 70 years in the future. And even this weird-ass version of Hawkeye has some intriguing elements. He at least hints at an interesting backstory.
“At the end of the day, 90% of the movie, I’m not the character I signed on to play. I’m literally in there for two minutes, and then all of a sudden… All I could really work on was the physical part of it all, because that didn’t change. That was just the biggest challenge to overcome in playing the guy.”
She's just ridiculously out of his league.
DH: On a related note, the story ties them all together so well, using the individual mythologies from their own movies in the larger story of this movie. They need Banner to track the gamma signature from the Tesseract, which Cap is familiar with from his movie, which Loki is after so Thor is in hot pursuit...and Iron Man’s movies made the most money, so him too. I actually can’t remember why they need him other than the fact that he’s a brainiac.
RG: It is a little unclear why they recruit Tony for this since they also mention that he was rejected for the Avengers Initiative. But he is very smart, and maybe they figured Banner could use a friend.
I would watch a whole movie about these two.
“I think without Tony, we don’t work. He really is the glue in the family. He is the fire, the thing that keeps you coming back. I think, at least for this movie, Cap’s struggling with finding his footing in this modern day – he’s a fish out of water. He’s a little more uncomfortable in his own skin than he normally might be, and he’s not hitting the ground running without the charisma and the leadership and the character that Tony Stark is.”
DH: I can’t get enough of the Thor/Hulk fight. I love how Hulk is such a dummy, especially when he grabs that pilot’s ejection seat, and then he doesn’t know what to do with it so he just throws it away.
RG: That is one of my favourite parts of the whole movie. That poor pilot!
This pilot probably tells this story a lot.
DH: Watching this time, though, it occurred to me--does anyone ever tell Thor that Banner and Hulk are one and the same? He calls him Banner, but they have no prior familiarity. Other than that stupid TV movie from the 1980s!
RG: That is an excellent point. I feel like Thor doesn’t know anything about anything, but he’s so good-natured he just goes with the flow. Really the only person Thor met before is Agent Coulson.
“ I like the visceral gut instinct that Thor has. There’s a bit of a childlike quality, in the sense that, if he believes something and wants to do something, he does it and says it. ”
Let’s talk costumes! I do not like Thor’s costume in this except the choice to go sleeveless. Excellent move.
A+
I actually like Captain America’s costume. I like that they went with bright colours. I can live with his ears being covered, even if it doesn’t really make sense. I like that it has a zipper up the front with some sort of velcro(?) panel. I will say this: that costume looks uncomfortably warm. In this scene all I can think about is how hot Chris Evans is, and for once I am not talking about his good looks:
Somebody please get him a glass of water.
My theory is that the costume being very warm is why we get to see my favourite look in the whole movie later: casual Cap:
I would like a movie where Tony takes Steve shopping for clothes.
Under Armour and ridiculous boots! I love it!
“Everybody looks incredibly uncomfortable until the cameras are rolling and then we all look f#@king badass. Then “Cut!” and we’re all like, ‘Aarrrgh… God, this thing, get it off me, it’s awful!!’”
Baller.
Iron Man looks perfect, and I like Tony’s designer Black Sabbath shirt. Black Widow’s costume is excellent, and never unzipped too far. I love Bruce Banner’s loose-fitting linen clothes, and The Hulk finally looks the way he should on screen.
He also looks like Mark Ruffalo!!!
One part of this movie that always makes me laugh is when Captain America asks Hawkeye if he has a suit before they head to NYC. It’s funny because Clint’s “suit” is really not that different from what he’s wearing in the scene. Also, Captain America assumes everyone has a fancy fighting outfit.
DH: I really do wish Hawkeye had some kind of headgear, a helmet or something, to make him look at least a bit more like his comic-book counterpart. It would makes sense after all, what with being just a regular human.
RG: It would also hide his face! Zing!
DH: Remember all the hysteria and speculation about the alien invaders in this movie? How everyone thought they were going to be Skrulls, or the Sons of Muspelheim from Simonson’s Thor run, or the Kree? And then they just end up being the Chitauri from The Ultimates, in name only, really. It didn’t really matter in the end, they just needed a faceless army to beat up on.
RG: Yeah, I had no idea who those aliens were supposed to be. I do not read Ultimates comics.
Too much handsome in one screen
DH: The final battle in New York is very satisfying. It could have been a confusing fiasco to watch, like a Transformers movie, but it has a very sensible geography to it. You can actually follow the action, and everything everybody does in it makes sense. All of the various fighting styles of the heroes, and how they all start to work together...I love it. Age Of Ultron really does have a lot to live up to. But I feel like most of this climactic battle was kept out of the advertising, and I also feel that we probably haven’t seen much of the sequel’s climactic battle yet either.
As badass as a person can possibly look.
RG: The New York battle is amazing. There are so many great parts, and actually Hawkeye has some great moments during it. They definitely try to make up for him being a mindless puppet for the first half of the movie. He’s still not everything I want to see in a Hawkeye, but he has some very cool moves.
It takes guts to go sleeveless when you are in a movie with Chris Hemsworth.
I laughed forever after Thor and Hulk took out that giant monster and Thor looked at Hulk like “Well done, partner!” then Hulk just punches him so hard! And of course Hulk going to town on Loki. I think my favourite part of the New York battle is when Black Widow gets Cap to give her a boost so she can hijack one of the alien speeder things. I think it’s a great character moment for her, showing her as fearless but also kind of fun. And I think Cap becomes at least a little sexually interested in her at that moment. He’d have to, right?
DH: I assume so! As he says in Winter Soldier, “I’m 95, I’m not dead.”
"How do you feel about 90-year-old virgins?"
RG: Oh, and Tony sacrificing himself to save everyone? Gets me every time. Especially when everyone is so sad around his lifeless body after he falls back to Earth. When Hulk yells in his face to wake him up, and Tony says “What the hell?”...that is solid gold.
Who's the asshole now, Cap?
I also love the scene where they are all parting ways. Tony and Steve shaking hands, Tony and Bruce leaving together to go be science bros, Hawkeye looking terrible, Steve taking off on his motorcycle in his dad clothes, Thor and Loki beaming up to Asgard.
Captain America is supposed to be dressed like a dork. What's this guy's excuse?
I feel like Bruce Banner should have been in Iron Man 3. That would have made sense, right?
DH: Well, spoiler alert I guess, but he is, isn’t he? After the credits? Does that count?
RG: No, that's true. And it's probably my favourite end-of-credits scene of all of them.
DH: I can’t believe I didn’t see that Thanos reveal coming. They really do hint heavily that some cosmic baddie is behind everything earlier in the movie (“You would question him? He who put the sceptre in your hand?”), but I was still caught off guard by that mid-credits scene. That reveal was hugely confusing to non-comics fans--my girlfriend Hillary turned to me and asked, “Is that Hellboy?” I thought there would be some vague tease of something, a name we recognized, or a familiar symbol or something...nope, Thanos himself. A pretty big gauntlet to throw down, if you will.
RG: Yeah, that was hard to explain to non-comic fans. It was ballsy for sure. For the normals they included the very excellent shawarma scene at the end of the credits, which is hilarious and perfect. I had my doubt that a shawarma place in midtown Manhattan would still be open after that fight, but you proved me wrong, movie! Shawarma is an excellent food that we have an abundance of here in Halifax, Nova Scotia, so it was nice to see it get a little recognition.
I would watch a whole movie where the Avengers are just hanging out doing stuff together. I guess that’s what fanfic is for.
I hope they tipped well.
Whoosh! That was a lot, and we didn't even get into fun details like Agent Coulson being such a Captain America fanboy, or Nick Fury doing anything! Anyway, we are going to take a few days to watch and digest this new Daredevil series and then we'll be back with our thoughts on Iron Man 3!
Living Between Wednesdays is a place for people who love comic books and superheroes.
